Consulting Psychology Update
American Psychological Association: Division 13
Volume 2, No. 1/Spring 2000


OPTIMAL CHALLENGE:
Message from Division 13 President

As Division 13 pays tribute to "The Best of the Century" in Consulting Psychology and honors past presidents who provided association leadership for over half a century, the division is also passing the torch to light the path for consultants entering a zone of warp speed global information. Evidence of our freshened tempo is noted in the sharply increased attendance at the division’s midwinter and summer conferences and in projects and activities undertaken by the division’s leaders and members.

Light from the Catalyst Torch

Take a look at the new APA13 logo on the expanded Web site. It captures the flame of the "catalyst" consulting psychologist, a division slogan-motto selected for the golden anniversary of APA divisions, 1996. Web torchlight is found in the second draft of division-developed guidelines for doctoral and post-doctoral training in organizational consulting psychology (OCP). As you tour our homepage site, you can also find a position opening announcement page, a preview of the division’s August conference to be conducted at the APA convention, and a review of the February 2000 conference held at St. Pete Beach, Florida.

Addresses, telephone numbers, and email contacts for division leaders are provided, as well as basic background information about the division: bylaws, purposes, history, goals and priorities, opinion polls, surveys, and illustrative types of services offered by consulting psychologists. Richard Paterik continues as division Web master. The Board approved backup assistance to support the rapidly evolving electronic medium. This support is contracted with Linda DeVore.
http://www.apa@apa.org/Divisions/Div13

Listserv manager, Karen Yasgoor, has assumed responsibilities for the message center. E-mail invitations are being sent to division members not yet entered into the division’s listserv communication center. The goal is to increase our dissemination and contact base from the less than 100 currently enrolled to a number more representative of our over 1300 members and affiliates. The listserv address is Div13@lists.apa.org. To subscribe, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTS.APA.ORG. Leave the subject line blank, and in the body of the message, type: subscribe DIV13 yourfirstname yourlastname.

Rapid expansion of electronic communications in the world of organizations is an alert and sign for those who consult in workplace environments. We dare not lag behind in our capabilities for exchanging knowledge, methods, and services. For example, our Web site is requesting comments on a statement about consulting psychology published in the APA Encyclopedia of Psychology. You can also find a questionnaire requesting your ideas about "The Best of the Century" in consulting psychology. Three network links will be "pilot tested." "Counters" that record the number of site visitors will tell us if there is an interest in the division providing these links.

Ongoing Leadership in Knowledge Development

The February Board meeting was a forum for division leadership discussion of the Education and Training Committee’s guidelines, intended to serve as a "model" for training and education of the organizational consulting psychologist (OCP). E&T Chair Rodney Lowman carried that torch beyond division boundaries when he attended the March 24-25 meeting of the Board of Professional Affairs (BPA). This is a dialogue that began with a letter to BPA, sent from the division at the request of members attending the August 1997division business meeting. That letter expressed the division’s concern about psychologists shifting their clinical practice or academic experience into organizational consulting without benefit of relevant knowledge and training, a concern also expressed by Division 14, I/O psychology.

Our letter to BPA mentioned that guidelines were being drafted by Division 13’s E&T Committee. BPA interpreted this as practice guidelines for coaching. After a conference call with me, Rodney, the BPA chair, a BPA Board member, and three APA staff members, followed by Rod’s attendance at the BPA meeting in D.C., much is clarified, mutual interests and concerns are surfaced, and collaborative "next steps" are being considered.

The BPA, a primary function of the APA Practice Directorate, is not as concerned about putting their stamp-of-approval on education/training guidelines as they would be if we were offering practice guidelines. They are considering calling a gathering of "key players" to discuss the professional practice of psychology in industry. The BPA Board sees a need for a self-assessment tool for "transitioning" practitioners to help them determine if they have the knowledge base for engaging in "coaching" practice in a context of business, industry and organizations. BPA is discussing the coaching issue with the APA "College" task group who are proposing coaching coursework. Division 13 will encourage BPA to pursue both objectives and will agree to participate in subsequent discussions.

Practicing What We Teach

The February Board took time before the regular agenda for organization renewal. The ad hoc Organization Renewal/Organization Development Task Group, established in 1991, became a Standing Committee through approval of the August 1999 Bylaws revisions. This means that renewal and strategic thinking will be an ongoing part of the Board agenda. Eight strategic goals developed at the February 1999 Board retreat in Phoenix were re-appraised. The number one goal, which remained solidly in first place, is to define consulting psychology training guidelines. This activity was re-interpreted to include creation and dissemination of the knowledge base for consulting psychology and to exclude use of the term "standards." A full report on division strategic goals will be made by Mike Atella, OR/OD committee chair.

Extended consideration of the evolving character of the midwinter conference included a need to re-examine conference objectives and to explore the advisability of providing honoraria to major presenters. With an estimated 225 persons participating in the 2000 midwinter conference, administrative management, logistics, content design and execution are placing stronger demands on the volunteer committee. The contract with meeting manager Lorraine Rieff, LR&A of Chicago, has proven to be an essential component of our capability to offer a conference for larger numbers. The conference remains a considerable investment of time and talent by members of the planning committee.

This year the division was honored by the number of seminal thinkers who gave presentations, as a pro bono collegial exchange. Their contributions to our consulting to corporations and business conference theme, "Consulting with Leaders," embodied knowledge and expertise considered to reflect "the best of the century" on this topic. Harry Levinson, Bernard Bass, Doug Bray, Ann Howard, Peter Vaill, David Campbell, Elliot Jaques shared their thoughts and ideas.

New technique "take-aways" were presented in an expanded offering of workshops and institutes. These topics included coaching, transitioning, a conflict dynamics process (CDP) 360-degree instrument, a new Job Stress Survey (JSS), and diagnostic-assessment of family businesses.

Midwinter Conference 2001

President Elect Dale Fuqua has invited the 2000 planning group, chaired by Debra Robinson who also chairs the Division Membership committee, to develop the 2001 program. The site and date negotiations are being finalized for the next midwinter conference: February 1-4, 2001 at the Westin Bayshore in Vancouver, British Columbia.

New Division 13 Award

The Board voted to introduce a fourth division award. The new award will be for service to the division. The other three Division 13 awards, distinguished contribution to application of theory [Levinson Award], excellence in consulting and outstanding graduate research [RHR Awards].

Nominations/Spring Voting

Past President Judy Blanton and her committee have put together a ballot slate of candidates for President-Elect, Council Representative, and Member At Large. Please review information that is being mailed to you from the Division and cast your vote when APA sends out spring ballots. Note: Although there were not enough votes in the fall apportionment balloting for the division to be given a second APA Council seat, the 2000 fall apportionment ballot will give another chance to increase our voice in APA deliberations. Thanks to those who gave more of their 10 votes this season.If half of the voters who do not give all 10 votes to Division 13 will give at least 3 more votes in the fall of 2000 the division should achieve this objective.

ABPP Diplomate: Call for Candidates

The issue of ABPP diplomate status for consulting psychologists is being addressed by Bill Amberg and Kevin Somerville. They ask that anyone who is interested in applying contact them. They also would like to hear from those interested in revitalizing and managing this activity.

 

Media Referral Service

Members who are interested in joining the APA Media Referral Service (MRS) are invited to contact David Partenheimer, Public Affairs Associate, APA Office of Public Affairs, (202) 336-5700. To be included in this data base used by the media to locate psychologists with expertise on a variety of topics, you can obtain the necessary registration form from APA or you can contact me directly.

Membership Recruitment and Maintenance Activities

Since the February Board and Conference, the Membership Chair has sent out over 200 letters and membership applications to psychologists who are APA members and not a member of any division, but who listed consulting as an area of interest. APA encourages divisions to take the initiative to invite colleagues who have not yet submitted an interest in division membership.

A project that will give us a look at the interests and specialties of current division members is being undertaken by Lee Maes, a graduate student at CSPP in San Diego. Lee is assisting me with this year’s division survey, a new semi-tradition initiated by Publications and Communications Chair Skip Leonard when he was president. Lee will mail out and analyze returns from "The Best of the Century" surveys sent to a sampling of Division 13 members sorted to reflect their other division affiliations. For example, members of Division 13 and 14 [n = 216], 13 and 42, Independent Practice [n = 208]; 13 and 12, Clinical [n = 207], 13 and 29, Psychotherapy [n = 178], 13 and 17, Counseling [n = 135]. Rod Baker, APA CODAPAR [Committee on Division/APA Relations], will be citing this project as a step-one, knowing your division membership overlaps, illustration for CODAPAR’s campaign to "Promote Division Expertise" and to encourage divisions to collaborate with other divisions to work on shared concerns and issues.

The APA Leadership Conference held in Washington, D.C., January 24-26, 2000 stressed the need for divisions to work together and to become better acquainted with unique psychological expertise represented in other divisions. President Elect Dale Fuqua and I were invited to conduct a short workshop for other division leaders on "strategic planning." Following the session, which was well attended and received, we were asked if the Division 13 Board would be willing to provide the same pro bono service at future Leadership Conferences. In February, the Board voted to accept this APA/CODAPAR invitation.

APA 2000 Convention, August 4-8
Division 13’s Summer Conference

First, I want to thank the many members who have given generously of their time and talents to the activities of the division this year. One of our new volunteers is Virginia Mullin who is working to put together informal events for a division Hospitality Suite, which is to be open Friday, Saturday and Sunday, August 4 through August 6 of the APA Convention in Washington, D.C. So far, six events are being scheduled. They range from gatherings for new members, potential members, students and special interest groups to committee meetings and the Journal editorial board meeting with editor Dick Diedrich.

Saturday, August 5, is an important day in the APA Program Schedule and begins with Board meetings and concludes with multi level interventions, the Annual Membership Meeting, President’s Address and the Awards Reception/social hourSunday, Monday and Tuesday will include international consulting, a live consultation demonstration, leadership and "A Last Hurrah" for the conventions of the 20th century. For Monday’s "Last Hurrah," APA CEO and Division 13 Past President Ray Fowler has agreed to reflect on his recollections of conventions-past, while Division 13 sketch artist and consultant Sandra Paulsen will present her impressions of the present, almost-past, 2000 "cusp"convention.

Monday features two international sessions. The first will include two division members who are winners of APA award for contribution to international psychology: Florence Denmark and Frances Culbertson. The second session will include presenters from abroad, Seishoh Sukemune (Japan) and Pittu Laungani (the UK and India), a candidate for President-elect of the International Council of Psychologists (ICP), Hagop Pambookinan (expert on psychology in Russia and former bloc countries), and the current President of the International Association of Applied Psychologists (IAAP) who is a Fellow of Division 13, Charles Spielberger.

Guests of Honor: Division Past Presidents

The Past Presidents of the Division have been invited to be honored guests at the Membership Meeting, the Presidential Address [with feedback on the results of the survey, "The Best of the Century"] and the Awards Reception. Past-Presidents who are able to attend will be invited to make brief statements during the Membership Meeting [3-3:50pm]. A number of the 24 Past Presidents have already accepted their invitation, including Albert Ellis, Ted Blau, Cliff Swenson, Vytautas Bielauskas, Ken Bradt and other recent division leaders.

Passing the Torch: Presentation of the Division’s Millenium Collections to APA

Board Member-at-Large Paul Winum will coordinate much of the Millenium Collections project. He will primarily pull together the documents being bound for inclusion in a Public Collection to be housed in the APA Arthur W. Melton Library. As voted by the Board, Archive Chair Jody Newman is requesting that restricted-access [private] materials sent earlier to the Akron University "Poppelstone Archives" be transferred to the new APA Archives Center on the 12th floor of the APA building. Recent Board Minutes, Treasurer’s Records, Contracts, Correspondence Files and Organization Renewal Records will be included in the Private Collection. Dr. Wade Pickren, APA Director of Archives and Libraries, will officially accept the presentation of Public and Private Division materials during the Saturday Awards Reception.

CE Workshops: Two Fostered by Division 13

Stewart Cooper once again worked to encourage and facilitate division members to present APA CE workshops at the convention. Two workshops will be offered in August for the first time in nearly ten years.Mary Kralj and Randy White will be repeating their very successful coaching workshop (Saturday). Rod Lowman and Dick Kilberg will be offering a new ethics workshop (Friday). Rod Lowman, this year’s division Program Committee Chair, has listed 19 formal sessions across the five day convention period. The full Division program appears in this UPDATE.

I hope to see you in Washington, D.C., August 4-8. Best wishes for optimal challenge in your association and consulting ventures.

Ann M. O’Roark, Division 13 President, 1999-2000


 

Call for Fellow Nominations

DeWayne Kurpius, Fellow Committee Chair

It is time to nominate those members of Division 13 to Fellow status who you believe have made a distinguished and unique contribution to the field of Consulting Psychology. Please send names, addresses, and phone numbers of your nominees to Dr. DeWayne Kurpius, 1303 Rechter Place, Bloomington, IN 47401 by November 1, 2000.

Mitosis:  Major Action at APA Council Meeting

Paul Lloyd, APA Council Representative

At its February 2000 meeting, the Council of Representatives authorized APA to incorporate a companion organization that will be exempt from federal taxation under section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code. This action will create a companion organization that can engage in additional functions and activities, which APA, because of its tax status, is prevented from doing. APA is exempt from tax under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. Because of this it operates under two areas of limitation. First, it may not expend more than one million dollars on lobbying expenses in any one year. Second, it must limit activities to those the IRS considers to be charitable, educational and scientific and may engage in only an limited amount of other types of activities, such as promoting the professional interests of its practitioner members.

The companion organization, organized as a Section 501(c)(6) organization, is not limited in the amount of lobbying it can undertake or its ability to address professional issues. Having this companion organization will enable the combined organizations to have substantially more ability to meet future challenges. Such companion organizations, created by numerous other entities similar to APA, are a well-recognized method of addressing the needs of a profession while insuring that all operations are in full compliance with all applicable laws.

Because much advocacy work is now done within the Practice Directorate, the new organization will focus primarily on practice issues and will be supported by monies from the existing special assessment of licensed healthcare practitioners. The annual budget for the new organization is forecast to be approximately $5 million.The special assessment funds collected at the end of this year for the year 2001 will be directed to the companion organization and it will begin operating on Jan.1, 2001.

The companion organization will have shared leadership with APA and will involve the most minimal possible changes from the current organizational structure.Services for members will be enhanced and not reduced in any way. There will be virtually no financial impact on members and the other Central Office Directorates will in no way suffer decreased effectiveness or loss of ability to further their missions and goals.

CAPP will be the day-to-day overseer of the companion organization's activities and will report to a companion organization Board of Directors that will consist of the same members who constitute the Board of Directors of APA. CAPP will also continue to oversee those activities that are in its present scope but which will continue to be located in APA rather than the companion organization. The Board of Directors will, in its companion organization role, regularly report to Council on the activities, decisions, etc. of the companion organization. Council will be free to advise the Board on any matter that it deems necessary.

The mission of the companion organization is to promote the mutual professional interests of practicing psychologists in all settings through a wide range of advocacy activities focusing on policy makers, consumers of services, and the overall healthcare marketplace. The bylaws of the companion organization will forbid it undertaking any activities that may adversely affect APA. Moving practice-lobbying activities into the companion organization will permit other APA Directorates to engage in additional lobbying without exceeding the IRS cap on such activity. Further, if in the future, it is deemed necessary and appropriate to engage in similar professional interest activities for other APA constituencies, in addition to practicing psychologists, those activities could also be performed by a parallel companion organization.

It has not yet been determined what the name of the companion organization will be. Possible names will be considered and it is expected that recommendations will be considered by the Board of Directors in June and by Council in August. All staff who provide services to the companion organization will be employees of APA and APA will be reimbursed for their services by the companion organization. APA will also provide office space, furniture and equipment and other services to the companion organization, for which it will be reimbursed at fair market value.

The authorization to create a 501(c0(6) companion organization was the culmination of several executive sessions of Council over the past year. Concerns were similar to those that greet change efforts in most organizations and systems whether they are businesses, families, schools or professional associations. Issues of trust and perceptions of fairness, reminiscent of the debates and misconceptions surrounding the creation of the Practice Directorate and eventual formation of APS several years ago, were at the forefront of the deliberations. Eventually, Council acted in the best interest of the APA Membership and authorized the companion organization.

Another item of business was a proposal to change the name of Council to Board of Directors to accurately reflect its place in the governance structure. Currently the Executive Committee of the Council is called the Board of Directors.

Important to Division 13, Council voted to reauthorize the annual Division Leadership Conference beginning in 2001. Also, Council voted to approve the inclusion of $10,000 in the annual budget for the years 2000-2002 to support interdivisional grants.

Council also voted to approve candidate division status for the American Society for the Advancement of Pharmacotherapy, Division 55 of the American Psychological Association. Division 13 Fellow jack Wiggins spearheaded this effort. Also, a new caucus was formed and will be called the Caucus for the Optimal Utilization of New Talent (COUNT).

One way to achieve greater recognition of Division 13 as a leader in APA is to increase involvement of Division 13 Members in APA governance. The Catalyst Division continues to put names forward of Division 13 members who want to serve on an APA committee or board. If you would be willing to serve on an APA Committee or Board, please contact president Ann O’Roark, President-Elect Dale Fuqua, or myself. We will make sure that your name is submitted as a nominee for the committee or board of your choice. Another way to help make the voice of Consulting Psychology heard is to generate Council agenda items that would be of interest to the Division 13 Membership. I would be glad to co-sponsor (endorse) proposed agenda item(s) and bring them to the Division 13 Board for their consideration, and with Board approval, subsequently to the Council of Representatives.


Please continue to think about how APA can best serve its Division of Consulting Psychology and what role the Council as APA’s governing body can assist in this.  My e-mail address is PLloyd@semovm.semo.edu and telephone number is (573) 651-2437.


Publications and Communications Committee

Skipton Leonard, Chair

Following our mid-winter conference in St. Pete, there was a quick burst of activity as we hurried to implement an up-graded listserv. Until recently, we were dependent upon members to send their e-mail addresses to the division for inclusion on the listserv. This was a very inefficient process that resulted in a very short list of less than 50 addresses. In February, we got approval from APA to use the e-mail addresses collected when members completed their dues statement. APA was rightfully concerned about member privacy in this exchange of information. To ensure privacy, a confirming e-mail will be sent to each member with an e-mail address registered with APA offering the opportunity to decline inclusion on the listserv. The listserv will only be used to send division materials and information and will not be sold or provided to any other organizations or agents. Using the listserv has the potential for saving the division hundreds of dollars per mailing of materials and information.

After the listserv is compiled by our website consultant, Linda DeVore, Karen Yasgoor will take over responsibility for the listserv from Richard Paterick who has been our listserv manager and webmaster for the past year. Karen has considerable experience with distance learning processes in her role as Chair of the Department of Psychology at Capella University (which has extensive distance learning offerings). We will be accessing her experience in this area to see if this is a good medium for the division.

Our current webmaster, Richard Paterick has done a great job in developing and managing the 2nd generation of our site. Because his job responsibilities have increased recently, he has requested that the division begin looking for his replacement. If you or a colleague have a passion and experience in website development and management, I want to hear from you. This is a great opportunity to help develop the next generation for our website and to get in on the ground level of the division’s internet-related initiatives. The internet can be a great tool for a small and spread-out organization to communicate and collaborate. If you have interest in the developing and managing the website, please contact me at skiptonl@yahoo.com or 703/ 812-3045.

Division 13 Hospitality Suite at August APA

Virginia Mullins, Hospitality Chair

Division 13 is offereing an expanded Hospitality Suite program at the 2000 APA convention in Washington D.C. Presentatons and receptions are being planned as well as meetings for Division 13 Committees. If you would like to schedule an event or meeting in the suite, please contact: Dr. Virginia Mullin, Hospitality Chair, as soon as possible. Phone: 219-462-2215. Email: MullinPsy@aol.com


From the Editor, Consulting Psychology Journal

Richard C. Diedrich

A quick "up-date" regarding the CPJ! 1999 was a banner year in terms of the submission of manuscripts; I received 50 new manuscripts, as compared with only 29 in 1998. This total was an all-time best! There was a noticeable increase in quality as well as quantity. The good news continues as we had 11 manuscripts as of March 31st (10 including special issue submissions a year ago). Keep submitting!!!

I hope you all enjoyed the special theme issue focusing on "Consulting to Team-based Organizations" (Vol. 52, No. 1). Here, all of the authors and the guest editor (Skip Leonard) are to be congratulated. There will be a "target paper" special issue sometime in the next year, as Dick Kilburg has done an exceptional paper on "Shadow Consultation." More on this later.

On the least positive news: we still need many more Institutional Subscriptions if we are to meet the APA mandate. We are making progress but too slowly, so please encourage your institution or employer to purchase a subscription (a bargain at only $97) and/or donate a gift subscription. Thanks.

Attention APA 2000 Convention Attendees

The Board of Convention Affairs would like each person with a disability who is planning to attend the Convention in Washington D.C., August 4-8, 2000 to identify him or herself and to provide information on how APA can make the convention more readily accessible for his or her attendance. APA will provide a van with a lift as transportation for persons in wheelchairs, interpreters for hearing impaired individuals, and escorts/readers for persons with visual impairments. We strongly urge individuals who would like assistance in facilitating their attendance at the Convention to register in advance for the Convention on the APA Advance Registration Form which will appear in the March, April, and May issues of the American Psychologist and the May issue of the APA Monitor. A note which outlines a person’s specific needs should accompany the Advance Registration Form. This is especially important for persons who require interpreting services. The deadline for registering in advance for the Convention is June 26, 2000.

Call for Award Nominations

John Deleray, Awards Committee Chair

Division 13 offers four awards in the area of consulting psychology. These awards include:

RHR International Award for Excellence in Consultation. This award is given to an individual with a distinguished career in the practice of consulting psychology. This award, funded by the consulting firm of RHR International, in honor of a founding member, Perry L. Rohrer, who epitomized the standards of excellence which they and the Division of Consulting Psychology seek to perpetuate, is accompanied by a $1500 check.

Harry Levinson Award. This award is given to an APA member who has integrated consulting theory into practice toward creating more humane organizations. This award, funded by the earning of a trust fund established by Harry Levinson and administered by the American Psychological Foundation, is accompanied by a check for $1000.

For the RHR International Award for Excellence and the Levinson award, the following materials should be submitted: (1) a letter of nomination from the primary sponsor, (2) letters of recommendation from colleagues, clients, etc., (3) a current resume or vita for the nominee, and (4) documentation of the significance and impact of the nominee’s work.

RHR International Outstanding Doctoral Dissertation Award. This award is given to a doctoral student or recent graduate for exemplary research that contributes to the theory or practice of consulting psychology. This award, funded by the consulting firm of RHR International, is accompanied by a check for $1000 and travel funds to present the award winning research at the APA annual meeting.

Nominations should include: (1) a copy of the defended dissertation (in 1997-1999), (2) a one-page letter explaining whyit is an exemplary work and clearly links it to the domain of consulting psychology, and (3) two letters of recommendations from the student’s faculty or members of Division 13.

Division 13 Service Award. This award will be given to a Division 13 member who has made a sustained and significant contribution to the division.

Nominees for this award must be members of Division 13 and have made a sustained and distinguished contribution to the division. Nominations need to include: (1) a letter detailing the service contributions of the nominee, and (2) two letters of support from division members.

Please send letters of nomination for each of these awards or requests for more information to:
John Deleray
16801 Addison Road
Addison, TX 75001
Nominations are due June 20, 2000.

Successful Mid-Winter Conference in Florida

Al Haimson, Conference Coordinator

After a very successful Mid-Winter in Florida, we are looking forward to another big hit next February 1-4, 2001 in Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Our theme will be: The Caring Organization: How can we mix people, productivity, profits, and performance and get a good balance?  The focus will be an indepth look at what can be a true dilema for companies and consultants. Some of the featured presenters lined up at this point include: Albert Bandura, Dick Leider, Mark Swyn, Robert Solodow, Susan Woolsey, Bill George, and CEOs.

We will again feature special pre/post conference workshops on coaching, transitioning to consulting, mergers and acquitions, theory and practice in consulting. We also will have some special breakout groups dealing with cutting edge work underway by our members. Hopefully we can take a look at the world of venture capital, high technology, and issues affecting the new economy and how we consult in that milieu.

We will be located at the newly remodeled Westin Bayshore in Vancouver. With the exchange rate in our favor, we will be able to have rooms in the new tower building in the range of $135-140, American. More information to follow shortly.

This year we plan to work a bit more Friday evening, perhaps even begin with a 2 hour program Thursday night for those arriving for Friday a.m. workshops, and then be able to take off most of Saturday afternoon to see the town!  We will likely end with a mid morning brunch Sunday for people traveling East. The post conference workshops are tentatively scheduled for early Sunday afternoon.

Save the dates:   February 1 – 4, 2001. More to follow.